Stuck in a Career Transition? Why Overthinkers Get Stuck — and How to Get Unstuck
There are two kinds of stuck.
You either don't know what you want, or you know exactly what you want and you're locked in place anyway. Allison Task — a coach with five careers behind her and a client roster full of people navigating career pivots — told me there are no other categories. Every person stuck in a career transition falls into one of those two camps.
I spent years in the second one. I knew engineering wasn't it. I just had no idea what "it" was, or how to start a career change without blowing up everything I'd built. If you're feeling lost in your own career right now, overthinking every option without moving on any of them, this is for you.
Here's what Allison's own career taught her about getting unstuck — and what it taught me.
The Cost of Staying in a Job You Hate
Allison's clearest line from our conversation: "When you're in a bad place, you keep explaining why you have to stay there. It's hard to move on. You're so busy explaining to yourself why you have to stay in something wrong."
That's not laziness. That's not indecision. That's a full-time job your brain has taken on without telling you — building the case for staying put. Every hour spent justifying the current situation is an hour not spent imagining a different one.
Allison has a client making $18 an hour who hates her job. The math is simple: she could make more bartending. The cost of staying in a job you hate isn't just the misery. It's the lost income, the lost time, and the lost space to even think about what else might be possible. "Staying here is actually a loss," Allison told her. "It's not a win."
That's the sunk cost fallacy, dressed up as caution.
How to Stop Overthinking a Career Decision by Asking for Help
I used to keep my doubts about engineering completely to myself. Telling people felt like admitting failure — like I was wasting an education, disappointing the people who'd believed in me.
Allison reframed something I'd never considered: when you tell someone what you actually want, you're not burdening them. You're giving them a mitzvah — the chance to do something kind. "When you share a dream with someone, you're giving them the opportunity to extend kindness to you. Now they're emotionally invested in your success."
This is part of how to stop overthinking a career decision in isolation — most overthinkers run the entire decision internally, alone, for years. People don't resent being asked for help with a career pivot. They want to be part of it. The only thing standing between you and that help is the fear of saying the thing out loud.
Why You Feel Stuck: The Credential Isn't the Cage
I told Allison about the weight I carried being one of the relatively few women in mechanical engineering — and how that made leaving feel like more than a career transition. It felt like letting people down.
Her response cut straight through it: "That's more than pride and ego. That's credibility, authority, expertise, and then a responsibility to your gender. You let women down. You're one of the ones. My God, the burden, the social guilt and obligation of that."
Naming it that precisely was the first time I understood what I'd actually been carrying. The credential itself wasn't why I felt stuck. The unspoken responsibility I'd attached to it was.
Small Steps to Change Careers Without Quitting Your Job
This is the phrase from our conversation I haven't stopped thinking about: inch pebbles.
Milestones are big. They require commitment, certainty, a plan. Inch pebbles are small — almost absurdly small. Hang some blinds. Poach an egg. Take an improv class. List your handmade greeting cards on Etsy and see if a stranger buys one.
None of these decide your future. That's the point. Each one is a small step to change careers without quitting your job first or blowing up your life — a tiny, low-stakes proof that you're capable of something you weren't sure you were capable of. String enough of them together and you've built the confidence, and the evidence, to make the bigger move.
For me, the inch pebble was making greeting cards reflective of my actual personality — a little weird, a little off-color. Putting them on Etsy felt enormous at the time. When a stranger bought one, it wasn't about the money. It was proof that something that was mine, and mine alone, was wanted by someone in the world.
How Long Does a Career Transition Take?
One of Allison's clients, mid-transition, said something that's stuck with both of us: "Wait, I'm allowed to choose?"
Yes. You're allowed to choose not to listen to the fear. You're allowed to test something small before testing something big. You're allowed to take eight years, like I did, between the first moment of doubt and the actual decision to change careers — because that's not failure, that's how long a career transition actually takes for most overthinkers.
The only decision Allison considers a poor one is the absence of a decision. Staying stuck in something you already know isn't right, indefinitely, while telling yourself you're still thinking it through.
If you're in the messy middle of your own career pivot right now — overanalyzing, overthinking, waiting for the big sign before you make the big move — start smaller. Don't look for the leap. Look for the inch-sized step in front of you today.
If you're navigating your own career transition and want support from someone who's lived through five career pivots herself, Allison's work might be exactly what you need next.
A few ways to connect with her:
🌐 Visit her website — the best place to start: allisontask.com
📚 Read her books, including Personal Revolution, A Year of Self Care Journal, and Morning Motivation: Find them on Amazon
💬 Explore her coaching sessions and programs — all available through her website above.
Want to hear the full conversation?
This post is based on my conversation with Allison Task on Your Life Unbounded — episode 1. Listen to the whole thing wherever you get your podcasts:
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Gloria (00:00)
I got a question for you. What if the thing that you call thinking it through actually is the decision and you've already made it? I'm Gloria Julien and I spent 15 years masquerading as a mechanical engineer because deep down I knew something was off, but I had no idea what to do about it. And now I'm a life and career coach, and I built this show because I was going through my own career transition.
And tired of hearing about the perfect pivot story, the ones that glossed over the messy middle, and how many years it actually can take to finally make the move. This is your life unbounded, a show for the person who doesn't know exactly what's next, but knows that whatever it is, this is not it. Every episode, I talk to real career changers about what it actually takes to finally make the decision they've been avoiding.
In today's episode, why the people who overthink every career decision might be the least equipped to make the ones that matter the most, and what my guest calls inch pebbles, and why the milestones you've been chasing might be the wrong target. And finally, the two camps every stuck professional falls into, and what it means if you're in the harder one. Today's guest has had more careers than most people have had jobs. And the thing that connects all of them isn't a strategy.
It's that she kept saying yes before she had time to say no. Please welcome Allison Task, Coach.
Gloria (01:42)
Hi, welcome, Allison. I'm so excited to have you.
Allison Fishman Task (01:46)
I am so honored that you invited me, so thank you.
Gloria (01:49)
Yeah, it's been incredibly long time. know, Alison, you were my coach a long time ago, so it feels like I'm full circle to coming back to coaching. And one of the reason I wanted to coach with you is because you had such a big background in a lot of career pivots. And that's exactly what I was going through at the time that we were coaching together. And
So I just want to hear your story from a more personal level of like, no, what made you transition between all these things? And I'll let you tell your own story.
Allison Fishman Task (02:29)
Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. And you're bringing up something interesting, which is that when you hire a coach, you know, it's not just our training as coaches that can be helpful, but it's also our life experience, right? And so it felt relevant to you that I had done these pivots and you know, I think that's just part of being a person today and certainly being a coach being vulnerable enough to share your story. And as you've said, like when you come to me, you're not looking for me to share my story. You're just looking for me to know.
how to do this from personal experience and professional experience, but now you're giving me the opportunity to share. here we are. So, PIVOTS. So I went to college and I came out with a degree in human development and family studies and people either went into social work or went into marketing. And I found social work at that time in the nineties seemed to be very downstream. It was helping people who already had big magnitude problems. And I was like, I don't know that I can affect real change there. So I went into marketing.
Gloria (03:03)
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (03:26)
where one can affect change, especially if you graduate in 1994 and get right into the internet. So I was very early.com in Manhattan. I moved to San Francisco. I worked for a company called CNET. So you probably heard of them. Got involved with Microsoft and all kinds of Java.com, Sun Microsystems. Like I was sort of like at this incredible moment of growth and creativity. I mean, that's like our printing press, right? So like the whole, that moment was.
Gloria (03:32)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (03:55)
amazing and I did it and it was fantastic. And then, you know, at some point it became, when I got in, was about convincing people that yes, someday we'll shop on the internet and like, yes, you'll give your credit card and yes, you'll do your holiday shopping. And we were, you know, young kids. My friends were all starting companies that were getting bought by, you know, big companies. And it was a heady, fun, awesome time. And then it became big business.
And that became less interesting to me. It was fun when it was creative and like, can you believe this? You know, we were like the proselytizers of this new time. And now that seems sort of quaint and cute. So when that all happened, then I was in a couple of companies that went public and you know, I had, I had a couple of commas in my bank account before I turned 30 and I was like, now I can do everything. Don't touch the principal. I'm, I, I never have to work again.
Gloria (04:33)
Yeah.
Yeah
Allison Fishman Task (04:50)
So I went to culinary school because I thought I wanted to help people cook healthfully for their families and enjoy it, right? My mom and dad both worked full-time, but my mom cooked dinner every night and did not enjoy it. And we all knew that. And I wanted it to be easier and more fun and joyful. And that I got into that just as Food Network was taking off, right? I rode the dot-com boom at the right time. And then boom, got into the Food Network boom.
Gloria (05:06)
Uh-huh.
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (05:19)
So I went to culinary school. ended up working for Martha Stewart. She ended up putting me in a TV show because at that time Martha Stewart was going to prison and she needed to bring other people within her organization into the spotlight because she was me doing other things. So I had an incredible opportunity to be media trained by Martha Stewart on the media and you know, take that ride. I eventually left and then I had shows on TLC and Lifetime and that's what I wanted, right? I wanted to teach
Gloria (05:33)
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (05:50)
people at home how to enjoy cooking. And it just so happened that Martha's going to jail, Food Network is happening. All these TV shows are now doing unscripted dramas. So, you know, I was on a show called Homemade Simple where we went into people's homes and taught them how to cook, clean, organize and design. And they were just really, it was fun. And my producer at the time who cast me and I was in that show, I was in that show for three seasons. She said, just so you know, this isn't how you're going to make a living.
Gloria (06:10)
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (06:20)
This is just a really fun opportunity, but don't mistake this for a career. This isn't your career. You can't, you can't bank on this, but have the best time. name is Sarah Kozak. She's still one of the best TV producers around. And she was right. And so I didn't put too much stock in it. I could literally just enjoy it. And it turned out that I was doing on camera work for seven or eight years.
and I wrote it right until I had babies. And then the last show I had was called Yahoo's Blue Ribbon Hunter. And I traveled the country going to food festivals and doing like crazy foods, like, you know, whatever, eating cicadas and judging the Maine Lobster Festival and going to Hawaii's Spam Jam. I was very pregnant.
Gloria (07:11)
eating cicadas.
Allison Fishman Task (07:12)
eating, no, I was not pregnant, but I was very pregnant at a roadkill festival in Marlinton, West Virginia. And I remember I was like driving through the hills. was like, you guys are gonna throw up. I'm throw up. I'm gonna throw up. They're like, throw up, roll down the window, whatever. Now you're gonna eat a lot of roadkill. So get ready for your possum and your squirrel and your bear and your deer. Right. And it was the best. It was best. Cause I got to travel the country, do all these cool things. And then I had my babies and then I had twins and I was like,
Gloria (07:24)
You
my god.
Allison Fishman Task (07:42)
maybe I shouldn't be hitting the road every weekend. Although they came early and we were still scheduled to do Memphis in May barbecue fest and I wasn't gonna miss that. So I showed up and it was sponsored by FedEx. So they're like, we'll set her up in her lactation tent. She can pump and we will FedEx that milk home to her babies. And I was like, well, that's kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity. Like FedEx is gonna make sure my milk gets home to my little preemie babies at home. Okay, sounds good. So that.
Gloria (08:02)
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (08:10)
You can't overthink stuff like that. You know what I mean? You just have to say yes, but I was very unattached to it. And because I was unattached and had no expectations, I could totally enjoy it. And then after I had my kids, we kept doing commercials and, you know, on camera work paid well. But I always knew it was a fun time. It was a hobby that paid, but it wasn't a career. So during that time, I had very difficult lockup agreements. When I was cast in a show,
Gloria (08:13)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (08:38)
They would say, you're not allowed to be on any competitive show for one year after the first airing of our show. So that meant like they would hire me for six weeks or two months or whatever. And then I was out. I was not allowed to work doing what I did. So I was a freelance writer. I was a cooking teacher. And that's when I went back to school and became a coach. got my coaching certificate. So like, I always had varied interests and I believed in my ability to earn.
Gloria (08:44)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Allison Fishman Task (09:09)
not because I had a W-2, but because I believed I could create value and attract someone like you, Gloria, to come and seek me out as a coach. I knew I could do marketing. I knew I could get a website and SEO optimize and you found me that way. You know what I mean? So back to my dot-com days, I knew enough about web marketing. I knew enough about SEO optimization. And believe it or not, I stayed totally off social media because I was like,
Gloria (09:22)
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (09:35)
That's a time sink. And I know I'll just go down rabbit holes with that. So I'm a new mom with babies. Like I'm not going to stick around with social media, but I am going to invest. I never ran an ad campaign. I invested in SEO optimization early, which, you know, if you search for me in the tri-state area, I come up very fast as a career coach, life coach, transition coach. Like I'm, top of the heap. Not like, I mean, I think I'm pretty good, but like, like the best, but like I'm SEO optimized. So if you want to search for me, you'll search for me.
Gloria (09:59)
Yeah.
YEEEH HAHA
Allison Fishman Task (10:05)
So a couple of career transitions, right? Intermarketing, so fun, until it started to feel not fun, it wasn't creative, it started to become more about the bottom line. That didn't match my ethics. And I had a lot of money in the stock market, which consequently, the companies that I was a part of ran down the stock market and got delisted. So my two comma account when I was in my 30s became...
Gloria (10:08)
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Allison Fishman Task (10:30)
nothing. It was the money I spent to go to culinary school and the money I spent to go to coaching school. So that money, like, it was an illusion of safety, but it didn't matter because it gave me the courage to then go to culinary school and have fun and then go to coaching school and believe that I could figure it out. And that those early days of coaching, watching my friends start companies, sell them, I just believed in my own capacity.
Gloria (10:36)
huh.
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (10:58)
to figure it out no matter what happened. And as long as I was enjoying myself and contributing something of value and being useful, it was all gonna work out.
Gloria (11:07)
Yeah. Wow. Thank you for such a long career story, but it's like so relevant. Right. So, okay. The things that I hear from you is like you followed your instincts. You followed your instincts, but not only that, you followed where you found joy and leaned into that and took opportunities when they came about. mean, the Martha Stewart thing, that's once in a lifetime thing. You can't plan for that.
Allison Fishman Task (11:13)
Robust. Robust.
good timing,
Gloria (11:36)
Yeah
Allison Fishman Task (11:36)
And I was media trained. I remember Lisa and Lou Ekus PR. They're like, they media trained like so many culinary professionals. I had the good fortune to just be the right place right time.
Gloria (11:46)
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with like taking the opportunities when they happen. know, when I was going through my own career transitions and trying to figure out what I wanted to do, like, what I found out was just starting to talk to people about, hey, I'm thinking about doing this. I want to go into more of that design work. And then just, I realized just like opening my mouth, letting people know, hey, this is what I'm thinking of. That's when people are like, let me connect you.
I think I'm constantly surprised at how helpful people are and how much people actually want to support your growth without any return and expectations in return. Is that something you've experienced too?
Allison Fishman Task (12:28)
So, boy, did you just open one of my favorite topics. So in my, I have five books, but my coaching book is called Personal Revolution. And I literally have two chapters on networking. One is identify the network you have. And the other is, you know, create the network you want. I go into this whole thing on how when you ask someone for help or even share a dream that you have, you're giving someone the opportunity
Gloria (12:46)
Hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (12:58)
Cause I'm Jewish. say, you're giving someone the opportunity to do a mitzvah. You're giving someone the opportunity to like extend the kindness to you, like do something really nice. So when you share a dream with someone, they're like, it's like when you watch your favorite sports team, you're not on the field, but you're rooting for them. so now they're like, cool. Gloria wants to this cool thing. Who do I know that might help her? So they're now emotionally invested in your success such that they want to.
Gloria (13:15)
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (13:27)
make an introduction for you that want to jump in and be helpful. It's like if you're single friends want to set you up on dates, you know what I mean? Like I think Gloria's awesome. And like, can I, how can I assist? What's really important is so that happens all the time and people are so afraid to ask. And I have to convince clients, like just try it. That's why I wrote two chapters of my book about networking. like you're giving someone the chance to be part of your story and be part of your team. Just make sure.
Gloria (13:33)
Yes.
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (13:56)
when you do make that connection, when you have that meeting, call back, give them updates. It's like watching your favorite TV show. They're now committed to your story and they wanna support it.
Gloria (14:08)
Yeah, I love that. really, really do. And I got stuck in not wanting to share where I was in life. So the couple of years before I found you, I was stuck in doing mechanical engineering. that's where I was just like, don't know what to do. But I felt constantly ashamed to even consider leaving that position.
Allison Fishman Task (14:34)
You nailed it. it. You nailed it. That's it.
Because like you felt guilty of thinking about it because somebody paid for your education and you knew this was a good track and it was so hard to do and you worked so darn hard on it. But in the end, you didn't enjoy it. And that matters.
Gloria (14:43)
Yes.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It totally, totally matters. Like, I realized that I just needed to find moments of joy. Like, wasn't even, it wasn't even like, this is the thing that I want to do. I know what my hobbies are. I know what my interests are. It's none of that. It was just, I'm just going to look to see where, like, what's behind the layers of bringing me joy. And that I realized was creativity, like engineering.
to some degree brought me some level of creativity, but it was so structured that I realized like I need more flexibility. I need to be not told what to do. And so like I ended up making and designing some greeting cards that like were very reflective of my personality and like my really sarcastic and really weird off-color humor. And it was, know, as a creative, as an artist, it can be really scary to put yourself out there.
But once I realized to start putting myself out there and putting my cards out there I was like a one people are actually buying it on Etsy. That's pretty cool Like random people and then too It's not as scary as I thought like the thing I was scared of is judgment from all these different angles And I think that's a lot that's a big reason why people don't even take the chance to find out, right? Yeah
Allison Fishman Task (16:13)
So a couple things that occurred to me as you were sharing your story. You may like the work, maybe being an engineer is interesting, but the way you had to do the work, so structured, like not a lot of room for creativity. That didn't work. I have a client right now who loves the law. She doesn't like the business of law.
She loves the law. She's a big law nerd, but earning a living as a lawyer and cleaning your hours and lying about your hours. Like that doesn't work. You know what I mean? What's also interesting about what you said about being a creative is when you were an engineer, I think you put on a costume. You put on a coat on a briefcase and said, I am now engineer mode. There's Gloria. And then there's Gloria, the professional engineer. Now, when you were an artist, you were like, I'm going to do my weird stuff. And that was Gloria.
Gloria (16:36)
Hmm
Yes.
Yes.
Allison Fishman Task (17:05)
raw, naked, vulnerable, putting yourself out there with like all your quirks. That is so scary because it's like, do you like me? Am I okay? So being an artist requires that level of vulnerability and they're I'm gonna plop it on Etsy. And then you're so delighted that people who don't know you are touched by your work. You're putting yourself out there in this way that people are responding to it. It is the scariest and how does it feel when it's received?
Gloria (17:11)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing. I was just like, wow, there's one person out there who actually likes my work and I have no idea who you are, but they bought it. I was like, wow, okay, they found me and they bought something for me. It's so cool.
Allison Fishman Task (17:43)
Hahaha!
It didn't even need to be how you make a living. It just had to let you know that you had something of yours and yours alone that the world wanted.
Gloria (17:59)
Yes, yeah. And I would also add, at that time, I was really having a hard time on what my hobbies were, what my interests were, because I did put that clothing on of being an engineer for so long. And also, there's a sense of pride and ego. Like, I'm one of the, I don't know, 30 % of female engineers out there. Yeah, it's like so perfect.
Allison Fishman Task (18:25)
That's more than pride and ego, right? Because that's credibility, authority, expertise, and then a responsibility to your gender. You let women down. You're one of the ones. my God, the burden, the social guilt and obligation of that.
Gloria (18:34)
Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. And like, like those are some of the big things that I was struggling with at the time. And it took a really long time to unlearn that. And leaning into that creativity was one way for me to do it. But like I said, it wasn't it wasn't like an aha moment. It was incremental for me. took, you know, coaching with you and then also another like.
eight years or so from that moment to finally gain the confidence to actually do what I wanted to do and like finally move from engineering towards, towards doing user experience design, which is what I ended up landing on. And then I did a facilitation work and then now I'm a coach and like, all of it is a different manifestation of creativity. And now I feel like I'm, I'm there mentally in that mode of creativity, but it's.
different than like an artist's creativity, but like I can feel that this is where my brain likes to be. And I need to keep doing it because I just like, love talking to clients and they have this aha moment every time I talk to them and they're like, I didn't realize, like I had one client said, like, wait, I'm allowed to choose. I'm like, yes, you're allowed to choose not to pay attention to the fear. And it's like, it's sometimes.
people just don't realize they have another option to even consider. Like their alternate reality just seems so far away from them. But when you really look at it, when you allow yourself to look at it, that's when it becomes possible. And those opportunities that you had during your career start to show up.
Allison Fishman Task (20:26)
Amen. So a couple of things I'm hearing here and in your digestive, your scenario, you talk about how you feel, right? So you're dropping away from thinking about what makes sense and what society is telling you and to be like, I just, it just felt right, right? Those indications from your body, the somatic tell is everything. And yes, we think we're supposed to wear costumes, right? We see our parents dressing up and going to work and playing different roles, but your
Gloria (20:47)
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (20:56)
your best bet is putting your own unique gifts out in the world. And you've got this hybrid, right? Cause you're doing the engineering and then you're doing design and then you're doing these wacky cards. And then, you you, you've graduated to a point where you can support others with their own change and what's better than, you know, the human design of being a coach.
Gloria (21:16)
Yeah, yes, I love that. Like, I've always been interested in how people think what what are the decisions that they're making? And why do they make those decisions? A long time ago, I actually wanted to be a therapist. And, you know, it kind of circled back to when I was eight years old, but it had to take 30 years of me kind of unlearning all of that, all of that cultural influence, societal influence, personal influence, I was just so dead set on doing engineering that I
didn't even allow myself to think about it. So I'm so glad I like finally made a way back. But there was one thing that you said I wanted to touch on, but totally forgot what it was.
Allison Fishman Task (21:57)
The other thing is the fact that it took you eight years and you made like micro changes along the way that helps you support your client when she says, I can choose. Cause you get it fundamentally. Cause you had the same struggle and now you're on the other side of it, which ultimately helps, you know, serves your clients.
Gloria (22:11)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah. when, and so, okay, I remember what I was going to say when you were going through your transitions and you had those opportunities show up at your door. Where were there some times when you're like, I'm not totally sure about this. Or were you always like really confident about, this is the right opportunity for me. You know, how much mental energy did you spend on making those decisions? What did that look like?
Allison Fishman Task (22:45)
That's a good question. So yeah, I mean, I pursued Martha Stewart for over nine months, not actually the organization, before I was given an offer. So when I got an offer, I remember they called me, they're like, hey, can you be at Susan Spungen's house in the Hamptons tomorrow morning? I was like, yes, yes, I can. So I didn't have the time to perseverate. They just had me on this very short thing. It was now, it was immediate, go, right? So thankfully I didn't have the time.
getting an opportunity to be on camera is like, I remember they did a negotiation with me over like Christmas break. They're like, we'll pay you 125 a day and dah, dah, dah. And I was like, this sounds terrible. And you can't work for a competitor for the next year. And I was like, and they, and they're like, and we need you to make a decision the next hour. And I was like, ah, and they're like, and if you don't want it, there's a long line of people who really do. So, and I was like,
again, wasn't given the time to really think about it. And do I want to be on a TV show? And like, where was I? was traveling to Charlotte. I don't know where I was, but it was like, yes, yes, yes. I want to do that. I didn't have the chance to think.
Gloria (24:00)
huh. Yeah. And it sounds like that worked to your benefit. A lot of our listeners are like over thinkers. They're like, we, have to, you know, make the spreadsheet. I have to ask all the questions, you know, I need to talk to the people, you know, I have also found that like sometimes if an opportunity to present yourself, for example, if you're going and you're targeting a particular company because you really want to work for it. let's say you're in that job search mode, you're constantly applying for other jobs, you know,
Allison Fishman Task (24:12)
Nope. No friction.
Gloria (24:28)
do you like if a company comes back to you and says, Hey, I want to interview you. You're not going to be like, no, thank you. I need to spend more time on my job applications before I interviewed. No, you're going to take that interview option. Right? So it's like,
Allison Fishman Task (24:40)
Right. And the
jobs I pursued were so competitive that they're like, we're going to hang up the phone with you and we're going to call the next in line.
Gloria (24:48)
yeah, tell me about like the competitiveness because I think yes, these days the job search for a lot of people are highly competitive because a lot of people are laid off in the exact same industry and then AI is taking over a lot of that too. But, you know, I think what I want to ask is like, how do you take those opportunities even if it does feel competitive?
How do you lean more into that instinctual decision making rather than logical decision making?
Allison Fishman Task (25:22)
Well, you, already described it with you. It's how you feel. I wasn't thinking, right? I mean, these are the aughts, right? The 2000s. So this is pre-Instagram. This is pre-influencer. Like I got proper hair and makeup when I was going to be on camera. it was, being on a TV show was like a big deal. Now you could sort of DIY it and get your ring light, whatever. So that was, that was back when it was still a big thing to be cast in a show.
Gloria (25:26)
Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (25:52)
You know, so I knew it was competitive and I was going for it. was like, well, I don't know if this is going to work, but I'll try. Also, what do have to lose? I had a dog. My parents could walk the, watch the dog for a week. I lived alone in an apartment in Brooklyn, which sounds sort of sad, but it was awesome. I didn't have kids. didn't have a partner. Like I was just flying on my own seat, right. My twenties and thirties. So I could do whatever the heck I wanted to. I didn't have anyone to ask. I had no obligations. I was very light.
Gloria (25:52)
huh.
Allison Fishman Task (26:19)
That's why now I love working with clients in their twenties who don't have mortgages or maybe some college debt, but we'll figure that out. Cause it's, they have great agility. And so when you're young, you have that agility. The only poor decision is not making one. The only decision is perseverating or staying in something that you know isn't right. I have a client right now who hates her job. She's making $18 an hour, hates it, hates it, hates it. I was like, you know,
Gloria (26:35)
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (26:49)
You could be a nanny for the summer or bartender or waitress and make more than that. So actually the opportunity cost of staying at this job means you're not only hating your job, but you're also losing money and not giving yourself the space to think about something else because it's really restrictive and you have to be there. It's like terrible. was like, so staying here is actually a loss. It's a win.
Gloria (27:09)
Yes.
Sunk cost fallacy. Sunk cost fallacy, right? Yeah.
Allison Fishman Task (27:12)
Some cost fallacy, thank you.
That's just math and dollars, but it's also time, happiness.
Gloria (27:19)
Yes, yes, something that I want to ask the listeners who are listening is like, what is, as you said, what is the cost of you staying where you are? Because you'd be surprised that sometimes it's a higher cost than just taking the opportunity when it presents itself.
Allison Fishman Task (27:36)
And it's hard to know because when you're in a bad place, you keep explaining why you have to stay there. It's hard to move on. And so it's hard to even have the creative energy to imagine something better. Cause you're so busy explaining to yourself why you have to stay in something wrong. So I don't do leaps of faith because I think that's too heavy. I do small wins like you putting your cards on Etsy, which validated like, huh.
Gloria (27:54)
Mm-hmm.
Allison Fishman Task (28:06)
I can be rewarded in seeing that I can be myself and the world wants it, you know? So I'll have do small things like learn how to poach an egg this weekend, like small wins that show you you can do something you didn't think you could do, which then builds that muscle so then you can make a bigger.
Gloria (28:23)
Absolutely. I just had a client tell me he was like really afraid of even looking into different career options. And then recently he said, you know what, I just started chatting to Chatgy BT about this particular career option. I was like, great. That is one movement forward, right? Yes.
Allison Fishman Task (28:39)
Perfect start, perfect start. win. I'm so glad you celebrated
that with him because he allowed himself to think about it with a very positive backboard who's going to support his ideas. So he's going to be able to little own echo chamber, but then it might free him up to have more creative thoughts. It's perfect.
Gloria (28:52)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, totally. So we're starting to wrap up the conversation. And I really wanted to ask, if you are coaching a lot of clients who are going through career pivots, life transitions, like some of these big things, what is one common theme you see with everybody?
Allison Fishman Task (29:11)
Sure. That's all I do.
people are in two places. They either don't want to be where they are, but don't know what they want. They just know this isn't working or they know what they want and they don't know how to get there. Everyone's in one or two camps, either no knowledge of the future, but misery at present or deep knowledge of future and just locked in. And so, you know, they need to have faith. They need to have hope. They need to have trust in themselves. And so what we're building are always, like I said,
Gloria (29:34)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Allison Fishman Task (29:49)
Poach an egg. I had a client once who was like, I'm gonna hang blinds this weekend, because I don't think I can. I'm like, hang some blinds. Put up a picture. I don't know, groom your dog, plant a flower. There's so many ways to see your impact and your creativity. Take an improv class. But embolden yourself to go different. So everybody has to just open up these neural pathways of possibility and...
and creativity and I can, I have a lot of people like do case studies on people who are in the industry you want. Find out how they got there. It can happen to them, it can happen to you. building, faith isn't the right word, because I'm not saying blind faith, building trust, building capacity, all of those things.
Gloria (30:32)
Yes, incremental small wins. All those little small wins. Now, yes.
Allison Fishman Task (30:37)
Okay, ready? Here's my
favorite term, right? You have milestones, and then you have inch pebbles. inch pebbles. I knew you would love it, Gloria. knew you would.
Gloria (30:47)
It's
so cute. I love it. Okay. So the last question I have is yes, incremental wins, small things. Now, what do you tell the person who is stuck on constantly getting those incremental small wins and not actually choosing to make a final move?
Allison Fishman Task (31:12)
to values, right? So what did you hire me for? What did you come here for? Right? I have a client who was in-house counsel at a pharmaceutical company and she was just bored and she wanted bigger things, but she was also 55. And we worked on it. She had interviews and she got better offers while we're coaching. They randomly gave her a $10,000 bonus. They just hand her money because she was getting happier. And then she's like, you know what? I don't want to leave. I want to stay here for another five years. I want to have
tons of downtime, I want to plan my retirement, like, I don't need to move right now, I'm just gonna coast and finish it off. But she needed to have the experience of looking for change. So sometimes exercise of looking for something different. It's like the piña colada song, like I went out to find another woman and then I found you. It's like, it's my responsibility to call people on their bullshit. And when they're swirling or
know, circling the drain or not making change. It's my job to be like, what's going on here? And so that's part of what they pay me for accountability. And I put their words back on them. And maybe they've changed and maybe they don't want the thing they thought they wanted anymore. You know what I mean?
Gloria (32:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally do.
Allison Fishman Task (32:28)
And it's okay. Sometimes there's the presenting problem and the real problem. You present me about a job change, but really you want to get a divorce. So in our process, we figure out, you know you want change, but you might not have been specific about exactly which change you wanted.
Gloria (32:44)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it does. think it does. Thank you so much, Allison. I really appreciated your time and reconnecting with you. It was so wonderful to chat with you again.
Allison Fishman Task (32:46)
question.
Hey, is as much of a joy for me to see you thriving right now, Gloria. So you keep going on.
Gloria (33:04)
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Gloria (33:12)
Wow, what an episode. I really love that Allison reframed telling people what's going on in your life as a gift for them. A mitzvah, she said. And I really believe that because people are so generous, but only when you let them know that there's something they could help with.
But one thing I can't stop thinking about are these inch pebbles because you're not making a permanent choice, just the next inch sized one.
So if someone you know needs to hear this episode, please send it to them and follow me Gloria Julien, that's J-U-L-I-E-N, on LinkedIn or Instagram for more on getting yourself unstuck from overthinking. I'll see you next week.
Hey, looks like you stuck around. Here's something that I'm doing right now. I'm watching Jujutsu Kaisen season two, and Satoru Gojo's backstory has me completely lost. Okay, that's it. Bye.
